Ashwini 00:00:23 - 00:00:51
What I wanted to ask was in relation to oversight over deputies. So you know, you are a professional deputy and I'm guessing that there are people that you have to answer to, account to, to show that you are doing your job correctly and you're discharging your duties as you're supposed to.
But you touched on family members, they’re sometimes taking on that role and again, what oversight is there to make sure that those people are acting in a person's best interest.
David 00:00:51 - 00:02:27
So as a deputy, we are appointed by the Court of Protection. So we receive an order, a judge makes an order appointing the person as the deputy to make decisions on that person's behalf. It is a personal appointment in that sense - it is outside of any other role and responsibilities that we have in our lives or our professional lives. You are in effect that person, in the eyes of the law and you are accountable to the Court of Protection, ultimately, and you are overseen by the Office of the Public Guardian or people might have heard, or listeners might have heard of the OPG.
And the OPG is tasked with supervising deputies and attorneys throughout England and Wales, and on an annual basis we have to file a report which is usually around 30 pages worth of information - what decisions have we made, how have we involve the client in that decision making process, how have we made sure that the client is safe and well in their own home, and we then have to account for every single penny that we have in and every single penny that we spend on behalf of the client. Those reports are sent off to the OPG or the Office of the Public Guardian on an annual basis and the OPG often comes back and says well, what did you do this for or where has this money gone? And if it doesn't balance, God forbid, the Office of the Public Guardian also has the power to remove deputies if they are failing in their duties.
Brooke 00:02:27 - 00:02:31
So the Office of the Public Guardian is a bit like the deputy’s deputy.
David 00:02:31 - 00:03:01
It is! And we recently had an assurance visit where they come out and they visit professional deputies like myself and they will go out and see clients - How is David performing in his role? Do you have enough money to live off every day or every week? Do you have any concerns about David in acting in your role? And they have the power to apply to the Court of Protection to remove that deputy and have someone else appointed.
Ashwini 00:03:01 - 00:03:03
I think they're more the sheriff than the deputy’s deputy!
Brooke 00:03:03- 00:03:08
Yeah, yeah! Well, so it's really reassuring to know that they have something there as well.
Ashwini 00:03:08 - 00:03:09
Yeah, yeah.
David 00:03:09 - 00:03:33
And one of the other things is there's also what we refer to in the industry is as a security bond, but effectively it's an insurance policy that all deputies are required to take out and that insurance policy can be called upon in situations where a deputy is defaulted in their duties and the person has suffered financial loss, so there is that that insurance protection.
Ashwini 00:03:33 - 00:03:35
Does that happen very often?
David 00:03:35 - 00:04:16
It does. I've called on the bonds a number of times over the years, not necessarily in the context of professional deputies, but that's not to say the professional deputies don't renege in their duties and clients suffer loss, but moreover it's lay people, so family members who, and we go back to money is the root of all evil. People will have the best intentions, but people might think, well, it's my mum and I’m their only child and I'm going to inherit their estate when they die. So actually I'll pay for my holiday this year out of their money because it's money that I would have otherwise have had when they died and suddenly the OPG come in.
Ashwini 00:04:16 - 00:04:52
Or sometimes it could just be that, you know, yeah, it's my mum but I'm getting all sorts of pressure from other family and at the end of the day we are family. Whereas, I guess as a professional deputy, you've got that objectivity, you're much more removed. So in some ways you have less pressures attendant on you than a lay deputy could have. I'm not saying that all lay deputies will have those issues, but yeah.
I suppose I'd want to know is what support is there for lay deputies so that they can do that job to the best of their abilities, in that person's best interest.
David 00:04:52 - 00:06:29
The support is the Office of the Public Guardian, so the Office of the Public Guardian is there to not only supervise deputies but also support them in their role. Like any government department, though, the Office of the Public Guardian is understaffed and there are thousands, there are tens of thousands of people acting in the role of either attorney or deputy for people that lack capacity throughout the country, and there are times where that support won't be as freely available because of staffing levels and government budgets.
But it's there, but they're not there to give legal advice to lay deputies or professional deputies, they're there to support them. And ultimately it goes back to the Court of Protection if it becomes a legal issue.
So there is support available. But I think if I say to anybody who's looking to take on the role of a deputy or an attorney, whether it's in the lay context or a professional context, we've all got our life admin to deal with.
Like Brooke says, he'll get the letter, he'll put it on the side because of Brooke’s brain injury, he will forget about it or he'll not deal with it because he's dealing with something else that's come up and he struggles to multitask, but we all have that problem in our life admin. That's the role that we're doing for other people.
So what I would say is you really need to sort of understand the responsibility and the level of responsibility that's placed on you as a deputy or an attorney. You've not only got to sort your own life admin out, but you've got to sort other people's life admin out.
Ashwini 00:06:29 - 00:06:29
You’ve got be very organised.
David 00:06:29 - 00:08:15
You've got to get their tax returns done just as much as you might need to get your own tax returns done. You've got to pay their bills as much as you've got to pay your own bills and unlike what we do in our own lives, you've got to account to the Office of the Public Guardian for every single penny, every decision that you make.
So it isn't something that you should enter into lightly. And I often talk to family members who want to be deputy for their family member and I often say to them that you need to understand that there is a level of responsibility over and above what you want to do for your parents or your sibling, or whoever it might. And don't go into this purely from a sense of ‘I have to do this because that's my dad’ or ‘I have to do this because it's my mum’. You need to go into it with your eyes open.
And there are people like me that do do the role in a professional context and if you feel that you can't do that role or you can't fulfill that role, don't feel guilty that you are passing it to someone else because the pressures that will come on you will come on you and there, as I say, it's a court appointment. You will go back to court if you fail, you will be investigated by the Office of the Public Guardian if you start to do things that raise red flags in front of the office of the Public Guardian.
I've had a number of instances over the years where there's police involvement, there's social services involvement from a safeguarding perspective. And attorneys and deputies have been removed because they've not done what they were supposed to do. Nine times out of 10 I think they genuinely did it for the right reasons. One in 10, it's a police matter and it's actually theft.
Ashwini 00:08:15 -00:08:17
Yeah, and it's sad, but it happens.
David 00:08:17 - 00:08:38
But even the most genuine of reasons in the eyes of the law. We go back to what we're talking about today, it's the Court of Protection, it is there and exist to protect those that aren't able to make decisions for themselves. So the most genuine of reasons can still fall foul of the law.
Ashwini 00:08:38 - 00:09:16
We often get questions from people enquiring, clients asking about potentially changing deputies, what can I spend my money on, how much is it.
Cost is actually something I wanted to pick up on because you spoke before about, you know you as a professional deputy, you're being paid by your clients from their monies and you have to pick your battles in terms of which decisions you're going to push or not.
But just for our listeners and thinking both from the context of a lay deputy as well as a professional deputy, what are the kind of costs that somebody might face? You've mentioned security bonds, for example. So, you know, can you give us some idea of some specific items?
David 00:09:16 - 00:10:21
I mean, there are fees that have to be paid. So when you first apply to the Court of Protection, you have to pay an application fee and it changes each year, but it's around £350 to £400 per application that you make. When you get appointed as a deputy, you have to pay £100 to have your name added to the Register of Deputies for the Office of the Public Guardian, there's the security bond or the insurance policy that we talked on, that's paid annually over five years and that can vary depending on how much money is actually being managed by the deputy. So if it's a smaller amount of money being managed then that insurance premium will be lower. If it's a multi million pound compensation claim, then that insurance premium is going to be higher.
There's also a supervision fee payable to the Office of the Public Guardian, which is paid annually. There are remissions or reliefs that you can get if you're in receipt certain benefits, but generally speaking, it's £300 odd for the Office of the Public Guardian fee again year on year.
Ashwini 00:10:21 - 00:10:29
Sorry, the remission, is that if it's the deputy that's in receipt of benefits, or if it's the person whose finances are being managed? it's if the person, it's the person.
David 00:10:29 - 00:10:43
It’s the person whose finances are being managed. So if that particular client is in receipt of housing benefit or Universal Credit because they can no longer work, then that may qualify for a remission of the supervision fee.
Ashwini 00:10:43 - 00:10:43
OK.
David 00:10:43 - 00:11:17
In terms of professional deputies charging, we're all bound by the Office of the Public Guardian and Senior Court costs office guidance as to what we can charge and how we charge. All deputies charge in accordance with the guideline hourly rates, depending on the location and that is effectively a four tier charge out rate for deputies and solicitors who are more than seven years qualified at grade A, then grade B, grade C and then grade D and as you go down.
Ashwini 00:11:17 - 00:11:17
Grade D being non qualified.
David 00:11:17 - 00:11:53
Grade D being a non qualified, potentially an accounts assistant in a professional context or an administrator and it's not for me in my role to look at a gas bill and charge grade A rates for looking at the gas bill and paying the gas bill. I've got a duty as a professional deputy to delegate my responsibilities to a more appropriate level of, we use the word fee earner in the industry, but someone else more appropriate and paid an hourly rate more appropriate to the task that they're doing.
Ashwini 00:11:53 - 00:11:55
We don't take a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
David 00:11:55 - 00:12:33
Exactly. So we're all obliged to charge the same hour rates depending on our location and every year as a professional, we have to send our costs and our files to the senior courts cost office for those files to be assessed. So if I were to say that it had cost £10,000 pounds in a year to manage someone's property and finances, that would go to the senior courts costs office and if they came back and said it was £8,000 then I'm only allowed to charge £8,000. So there's that added layer of oversight on the fees that we as professional deputies take.
Ashwini 00:12:33 - 00:12:58
I guess that's of some reassurance then, to people who are potentially facing having to have a deputy and the Court of Protection knowing that they've got the OPG, the Office of the Public Guardian, who are supervising the deputies to make sure that they're doing their job properly, but also in the case of professional deputies that you've got the SCCO looking at the costs that they're charging, making sure that those charges are appropriate and not over inflated.
David 00:12:58 - 00:14:33
And I think one thing to add in the in the context of a compensation claim and you know this far better than I do Ashi, the costs of a professional deputy can be claimed as a separate head of loss within the compensation claim itself. So, if the evidence is that a client needs a professional deputy for 10 years, and that is likely to cost £10,000 per year, then in theory there will be £100,000 recovered within their compensation claim to pay for the likes of someone like me. OK, now that doesn't mean that I'm free to charge £10,000 and take the £100,000 over the 10 years. If it works out that it's £5,000 a year for 10 years, then there's £50,000 in that compensation claim that can go on something else.
But conversely, if there's not enough money, then we're then starting to eat into other areas of the compensation claim itself. Again, it's a balance, but ultimately the professional deputy is the one that manages that compensation claim and they will be looking at not only their own costs and how they were calculated within the claim context, but the costs of maybe a case manager or a dietician, or a physio going forwards and it's always about sort of looking at what was claimed, what's being spent. Can we carry on spending that amount of money? Do we need to spend more? It's just looking at it as a whole.
Ashwini 00:14:33 - 00:15:18
Sometimes I think as well we know that someone perhaps has capacity, but needs additional help or you might find certain large financial transactions difficult to deal with and we've come across situations where certain in the litigation context where we've got experts suggesting that a person has a professional trustee. Can you talk to us just generally about what a professional trustee does, a personal injury trust, and I should just specify here that this is only in relation to people that do have compensation claims, these aren't mechanisms that exist generally. But how a professional trustees role might differ from a professional deputies role. What a personal injury trust is, as well.
David 0:15:18 - 00:16:40
OK, so a personal injury trust is effectively a legal mechanism that entitles someone who is in receipt of compensation whilst also being in receipt of means tested benefits or statutory funding, preserving their entitlement to both. Nine times out of 10, it applies to someone with capacity and smaller amounts of compensation or amounts of compensation that would be in excess of the current capital thresholds for means testing. And if they weren't to place that compensation into a trust, then they would lose their entitlement to benefits.
The Trust itself is a legal document. It effectively gives control of the compensation from the person receiving it to at least two people, and, more often than not that is, the client and their spouse or partner or family member, and that control is then passed to the trustees and the trustees make decisions in relation to the compensation within the Trust Fund and release money in the beneficiaries best interest.
It's not governed by a separate tax regime. It’s like having money in a joint account where you both need to sign for it, so that's effectively what the PI Trust is. It's a way of preserving entitlement to benefits, but you do give away sole control of the money that you receive.
Ashwini 00:16:40 - 00:16:43
Yeah, it's a legal having your cake and eating it.
David 00:16:43 - 00:17:52
It is having your cake and eating it. In the context of a of a professional trustee, we talked before about no client being the same and capacity being 50 Shades of grey. And in the role of a deputy, you can be micromanaging someone’s financial affairs where they completely lack all decision making capacity, all the way through to the other end of the spectrum where you are effectively just making bigger decisions.
So what I often say to clients is a deputy can be the full orchestra and the conductor, depending on the clients individual capacity, so I may be playing second fiddle for those that can't make decisions for themselves, for those that are more able to make most decisions for themselves, I'm in that conductor role.
As a professional trustee, you should only be within the professional conductor role. Ultimately, the client has capacity to make those decisions for themselves. They should be dealing with their own bills, their own financial affairs. But in that role as professional trustee, you are assisting in the bigger decisions that need to be made, so you are effectively conducting the orchestra.
Ashwini 00:17:52 - 00:18:06
That's a really good analogy. I guess as a co-trustee, you might be a page turner almost! You know, not even conducting the orchestra. It's just sort of, I guess an additional safeguard because the trust requires more than one trustee.
David 00:18:06 - 00:18:10
It goes back to what we said before, it's the blame Canada situation.
Ashwini 00:18:10 - 00:18:11
Yeah, true.
David 00:18:11 - 00:19:16
If you have a professional trustee and people are putting pressure on you or there are pressures to spend money in places that you don't want to spend it, there is someone else that is there to question that decision and make you stop and think. I suppose it’s a sounding board. I've got an idea, I think I might want to do this, OK, well, let's talk about it, let’s see whether it's a good idea.
Ultimately though, the one thing I will say is PI Trusts are not a panacea, and the appointment of a professional trustee is not a panacea to someone who has or struggles with decision making. Within the Trust deed itself the beneficiary has the right to remove their trustees and appoint new trustees whenever they want to. So it's certainly in the legal context, having a professional trustee does not avoid people being taken advantage of, because if that person still has capacity, they can remove the professional trustee if they disagree with them and appoint someone who agrees with them.
Ashwini 00:19:16 - 00:19:25
And I'm guessing because that person has capacity there isn't the same requirement for oversight in the same way that you would Have for a deputyship.
David 00:19:25 - 00:20:03
No, there's very minimal oversight. I mean, professional trustees or trustees in general have fiduciary duties or not set out in law, but general duties that they have to have to adhere to and they're governed by the Trustee act and there's certain things that they have to do. They're not allowed to put their own interest first. They've got to take appropriate financial advice in terms of the trust management.
But there isn't that separate government body that’s providing oversight. There isn't an insurance policy backing it up. So again, for the listeners, if you are going to have a personal injury trust, choose your trustees wisely.
Ashwini 00:20:03 - 00:20:04
And make sure you trust them!
David 00:20:04 - 00:23:10
And make sure you trust them!
I'm conscious Ashi, that one of the questions that you asked me was how do we change deputy and I think we got distracted on fees and importantly so that we are as professionals are charging fees, so it's important that the listeners know that that those fees are paid, but there is an element of oversight.
But ultimately, if you aren't happy with your deputy, then the first route for all clients that I talk to, who might approach me and say that they would like a different deputy being appointed whether that's a family member or me in my role, or someone who doesn't want to work with me anymore. The first route is to have a conversation with your deputy. Try and iron out the issues that you have. Try and meet with an amicable resolution. So talk to them, get them to understand your point of view, allow them the opportunity to explain their point of view.
It may well be that there's a lack of information or a lack of understanding, or a misunderstanding that's occurred as to what the deputy can and can't do or what it is that the family want the deputy to do.
So, the first route is to at least have a conversation because if it is a professional deputy, that is going to cost the less or least amount of money, having the conversation, working through the issues will be the cheapest option that you have.
You then have an option to go to the Office of the Public Guardian and ask them to conduct an investigation and the Office of the Public Guardian, ordinarily, in the first instance, write out to the deputy to say we've had concerns raised by whoever it is and please can you answer these?
Now, I personally don't hold great faith in the Office of the Public Guardian writing to professional deputies raising those concerns because ultimately if I was asked why have you done XY and Z, I would go back and I would say I've done them because of XY and Z reasons and there's no three way conversation going on. It's literally, these are the allegations that have been made against you and what I've seen in practice is deputies will go back and say, yes, we've taken all steps that we needed to take. We've talked to the family. It's wrong that they say that we haven't talked to them or we've done all of these things and ultimately you're left without a resolution.
So the Office of the Public Guardian is there to investigate, but ultimately it doesn't prove to resolve the issues. In my experience, it's far better to have that conversation with your deputy yourself and know that you're asking the questions and you're hearing what they have to say to you, not through a third party.
Ultimately, you can change a deputy by applying to the Court of Protection, but the only way that a deputy can be changed is through a court order and an application to the court. So it goes back to the reason why I said speak to the deputy first.
Ashwini 00:23:10 - 00:23:22
And presumably with the application you'd need to set out specific reasons as to why you are seeking that change in appointment, and that it is the right thing to do, or to try and persuade the court it’s the right thing to do.
David 00:23:22 Speaker 3
Yes, it goes back to what we talked about earlier. Every decision that a deputy makes or the Court of Protection makes has to be in the person's best interests. And a change of deputy has to be justified through the court process as being in that person's best interest. So you have to demonstrate through usually a supporting witness statement within the proceedings all the reasons why it's in that person's best interest to have a new deputy appointed.
It does happen where the deputy refuses to step down and you can end up before a judge in court, giving evidence as to why that person should be removed as deputy. I always try to resolve the issues or ask the clients to look to resolve the issues or speak to the deputy themselves to say look, this isn't going to serve anyone’s purpose by going to court, arguing over whether you're to blame or whether they're to blame. Ultimately, if there has been a breakdown in the relationship, it's in everyone's interest for that to start again and for a new deputy to be appointed.
But it can and does result in court proceedings where the deputy won't let go because they feel they've not done anything wrong. And I've had a number of experiences over the years where I've sought to agree a transfer of deputyship and ultimately they've said no, we're not doing that and I’ve then looked at what's in the clients best interests and decided that actually I'm not going to go to court over what might just be sort of a falling out or a disagreement over a certain thing.
It's got to be when you are talking about, I mean an application to the Court of Protection could cost you a couple of £1000 plus VAT if you are talking going to attended court hearings, you are in the 10s of thousands of pounds on both sides.
Again, don't think that you can just change your deputy without incurring cost and the other thing to think about is the costs that are associated in the transfer after a new deputy is being reported.
Ashwini 00:25:34 - 00:25:37
Yeah, because I'll have to review everything.
David 00:25:37 - 00:26:06
They have to take over all the bank accounts, they have to renew all the direct debits, they have to write to the local authority for your Council tax, they have to write to the car to get your car taxed, DWP, your benefits. So there's a cost incurred in actually transferring the management of that person's affairs.
So again, if you can resolve those issues with the deputy that you have at the time, you will save money going forwards.
Ashwini 00:26:06 - 00:26:30
But I guess it's also not to say that you know if there is a problem, you should avoid addressing it, because it's going to be a costly process because sometimes it's the right thing to do.
Have you ever come across situations where they've been almost vexatious applications by family members who've wanted to get rid of you as professional deputy not necessarily with any sort of foundation - just simply that they want to get rid of you?
David 00:26:30 - 00:28:39
Personally, I have never stepped in the way of a client wanting to change their deputy from me. And that's because it is a personal appointment to me, not only in the context of it being my name on the order, but also I live and breathe my clients financial affairs, I know their pet’s names, I know what's wrong with their houses having read through the survey reports, I know how long it's going to be before their money runs out, I know when their tax deadline is. The role of a deputy is so involved in a person's life, it is about the relationship that you can build with that person over the time. And if that relationship breaks down, then that's just going to make what is already a difficult job, much harder.
So I've never stood in the way of anyone who says I can't work with you anymore because if I'm going to argue with them or we're going to argue over decisions that I'm making, believing those to be in the person's best interests, it's only going to add to the costs and if they have someone or they’ve found someone that they feel that they can work with better, then so be it.
Similarly, though or conversely, I should say, I have come across people who and there is a phrase in the industry ‘deputy shopping’, and there are people who will have a deputy, they won't get what they want, or the family invariably won't get what they want, and they change deputies.
And then another couple of years goes by and they find somebody else and quite recently I've come across a situation whereby the Court of Protection has refused the appointment of a replacement deputy for a period of five years because ultimately it is a Court authorised appointment. The Court doesn't appoint the deputy lightly and it's not for the deputy or the family or the client to just say I've had enough, we're going to go somewhere else.
Brooke 00:28:39 - 00:28:42
Where would you go deputy shopping?
Ashwini 00:28:42 - 00:28:45
To the Deputy supermarket!
David 00:28:45 - 00:28:51
There's lots of us out there, there are thousands of professional deputies out there, Brooke.
Brooke 00:28:51 - 00:28:51
Not that I'm thinking of changing by the way!
David 00:28:51 - 00:29:45
We're all different. We all have different reasons and motivations for why we do the job that we do. We all have different levels of experience. No two deputies are the same, just as no two clients are the same. And throughout my career I've looked at clients and thought you're probably not or I'm probably not the best fit for you or someone else might be a good fit for you. As I've worked through my career as a solicitor and sort of moving up the ranks, Yeah, you and I clash, so let's look at someone else that might work better with you because ultimately, we're doing it for a reason and there is a lot of responsibility on our shoulders. So if I'm not right, there are other deputies out there that that might be right for you.
What I will say and of course, I'm going to say this is, the grass isn't always greener.
Brooke 00:29:45 - 00:30:01
What was originally pitched to me in a brain injury friendly way was that the reason you needed deputy is you don't make some stupid decisions such as going to buy a bright green Lamborghini, which might be cool on the first day, but you know, six months later you realise it's a massively depreciating asset.
Ashwini 00:30:01 - 00:30:05
Especially if you can't drive.
Brooke 00:30:05 - 00:30:09
Yeah, especially when you can’t drive – that would be an issue! But have you ever had any mad requests like that?
David 00:30:09 - 00:30:11
I've had lots of weird and wonderful requests, yes.
Brooke 00:30:11 - 00:30:12
I imagine.
David 00:30:12 - 00:30:46
And I say weird and wonderful - when I started the whole sort of podcast today with saying that every client's different and it's not for me to live my life through them. And the reason I'm saying weird and wonderful is because it's not something that I personally buy, but I've had a request for a few £1000 for a blue velvet sequin tuxedo, which I thought was… this was someone who was in a residential rehab setting and wasn't going to go anywhere, unfortunately, that required a blue sequined velvet tux.
Brooke 00:30:46 - 00:30:47
There's a moment of sadness to that though, isn’t there?
David 00:30:47 - 00:31:00
There is, and ultimately every request that I that I get, be it weird and wonderful or mundane, invariably, it's not the client, it's the client's brain injury that's making the request.
Brooke 00:31:00 - 00:31:03
Right.
David 00:31:03 Speaker 3
I've gone by many different names over the years. I've gone by money man, deputy Dave, Money Bags, bank manager, accountant, names I won't repeat on the podcast that aren't as aren't as nice, but ultimately, it's the brain injury or it's the illness that's talking to me. People have sworn at me. People have threatened to come and stab me if I don't give them their money. I've been to Strangeways. I've been to different prisons throughout the years to see clients. It's not them. I've had conversations with parents who have been upset because they're their son or their daughter has spoken to me in a certain way - it’s not their daughter or their son - it's the brain injury or the illness that they have that's making them speak in that way. And I do take it personally at times, but I don't take it personally to them. It's not that person, it's not the person they were. But I have to appreciate and understand that it's the person that they are today.
David 00:32:11 - 00:32:45
So the question was - so blue velvet sequined tuxedo. I've had numerous requests for plastic surgery over the years - that's quite common. Flash cars, like you say, Lamborghini, that's usually one. Bigger houses than they really need.
But I mean, ultimately going back to what we said, each client has their own lives, each client lives their own lives. Whatever their passions are they will invariably come to me to ask me to fund whatever passion it is that they have.
Ashwini 00:32:45 - 00:32:56
And it's not for you to impose any judgment on that.
Maybe the guy was going to an Austin Powers event in his home, who knows?
David 00:32:56 - 00:33:49
I think in that particular circumstance it was very much, and I don't know whether I'm using the right word, but psychosomatic - the idea of spending his money and that was what he wanted, would make him feel better and some control over what he was spending.
So yeah, like I say, there's been lots and lots of things say the flowers for grandma's graves on three occasions throughout the year will always stick in my memory.
And I've been involved in money laundering investigations where clients have been taken advantage of and that's becoming more and more apparent in the world we live in now with Instagram and social media - people are making friends in inverted commas online and my clients are giving away their bank details and suddenly we've got the police involved.
Ashwini 00:33:49 - 00:33:52
Have you had any requests to invest in Bitcoin yet?
David 00:33:52 - 00:34:11
I have and it's something that has formed part of portfolios of investments previously, not any longer.
But I mean when it comes to investment Ashi, it's don't have all your eggs in one basket so you will have stocks and shares and guilds and bonds and…
Aswhini 00:34:11 - 00:34:16
No, of course not.
David 00:34:16 - 00:34:25
All the rest of it, and you might have some bitcoin, you might have some property, you might have some car park spaces. But it's about having a mixed bag.
Ashwini 00:34:25 - 00:35:01
Great , well, thank you, David. I think that's been really, really helpful. I'm sure our listeners will find it fascinating and I'm hoping as well, that it will have dispelled some common myths and preconceptions about what the role of the deputy is, and the fact that you're not there to prevent people from accessing their money. If anything, you're there to help them, to empower them to make decisions for themselves so that they can regain some control, particularly after often a very traumatic and life changing event. So once again, thank you very much David for joining us today.
David 00:35:01 - 00:35:02
Thank you for having me.
